Problems in XE5...
Compare with the face of Yaroslav Brovin (my Delphi friend who leads me through the valley of darkness) when showing multi-plat features regarding a real-world busines app.
I can't believe, app size is that big!
Windows 8 is ok for Delphi XE5.
One code. One developer. One project.
St-Petersburg, XE5 launch, 12 September 2013.
Comments
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Sunday, 22 September 2013That's exactly what I will do
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Sunday, 22 September 2013
@Petar
>>You make fun of the obvious facts.
Absolutely not. The acceptance of XE5 release in St-Petersburg was great, people were having fun! I wanted just to share the great event. Nothing more.
>> I will not renew my SA nor re-buy Delphi any more.
Petar, I've been hearing such phrases from time to time. I'm really sad to see such a reaction.
Nevertheless, please, understand our point.
Such phrases are a sward of Damocles. How can you create cool things, introduce new features, if the users are always saying "move a button to one pixel left, or I won't buy it". "Add a new menu item today, or I'll quit". I'm not telling, we don't pay attention to the product's quality. We're at the moment of a great progress in multi-platform support. Yes, we're inspired Delphi supports Android. Our customers do also. We always should think about quality - quality of products, quality of communications, quality of event, quality of evangelist work. Today it's time to first think about the future and capabilities and how Delphi implements the dreams of developers around the world.
We value your loyality. We value you as a professional and your opinion, as a professional. Otherwise (please, be honest) I'd simply delete your comment from my blog as Embarcadero employee. But we believe in your loyality. In addition, we believe you're not ready to throw away all your experience in Delphi, all your codebase, all your competence. Are you ready to re-format your brain and start a new technology? Millions people do have patience and do understand, how revolutionarily our product are.
If not, I wouldn't see 10% Visual Studio C# users at XE5 launch. And 7% of XCode developers.
Be hontest, I'd never posted about "problems" if I don't see them. Ignoring? Not my way. Problems exist. But a great progress exists. Today's the choice between "freeze" Delphi is let it be a dinasaur, forever bound to Windows, and wait until it dies. Or give a transformation to the product, taking all the best from the past, but giving it an absolutely new quality - multi-plat. Once again - your experience, your skills, your codebase. Take them all with us to the Delphi's multi-plat future! -
Sunday, 22 September 2013
@Gemot Baecher
Gemot, your choice.
Years of experience. Tips and tricks, hacks and workarounds you have on the tips of your professional fingers. Can you just say "good bye"? Or together with Embarcadero start doing great multi-platform apps? Your choise, it's a free world.
Today we have a Delphi triumph. Yes, we've done Adroid support. Dreams of millions of developers, not only Delphi users. If you quit, you'll leave the culmination of the party. Before fireworks. Before champaign. Stay with us, be with us. Be part of the great changes. It's gonna be life-long party. -
Monday, 23 September 2013
Good for you, Vsevolod. As you say, XE5 is not perfect. But it is usable for many situations. And if quality can now improve, that could be a very healthy future.
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Monday, 23 September 2013
Vsevolod Leonow wrote:
"Or together with Embarcadero start doing great multi-platform apps?"
On pragmatic side I do not really care whether I do things with Embarcadero or not. I have products and they have to work PROPERLY and give return on investment. On Windows side Delphi had this quality for quite a long while. Lately this quality is going down and FM just simply does not work when doing something more complex then simple forms for POS applications.
Whether Windows is passe or not it is still a VERY viable deployment platform for content producing/complex products. And you are making many developers (myself included) who rely on Windows feel that Delphi may no longer be a competitive offering in this area.
On mobile side. I think in order for customer to shell out their money the app has to be flawless (way too much competition). So unless you iron out all problems with FM (which you did not for many years already) the developers would rather stick to whatever "official" tools are recommended for that platform. Also many applications for mobile could be done as browser based apps that makes them multi-platform with way less hassles then doing it with Embarcadero's offering.
In the end you have this great idea of having product that would cover big range of deployment targets with the least efforts. On a practical side the implementation is very far from fulfilling that claim properly and you will be lucky if you manage to honor this claim before the patience runs out -
Monday, 23 September 2013
Всеволод, подскажите, когда стоит ожидать обновление с образом для эмулятора (который rsxe5_android) с GPU emulation?
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8747/610b.png -
Monday, 23 September 2013
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Monday, 23 September 2013
There are HUGE performance improvements in FireMonkey in XE5 (comparing it with XE2). Just play with this app by resizing the window or scrolling.
Without a continuous performance focus you can't get a foothold into the mobile space ...
My congrats to the FireMonkey team ! More documentation, polishing and stability (ex: FMX styles and Form Designer) will definitely make the things better.
Smoother and faster: Experiment demonstrating performance improvements in FireMonkey XE5 over XE2
http://cc.embarcadero.com/Item/29547 -
Monday, 23 September 2013
Functionality wise, in 90's I developed Turbo Vision & Paradox 4.5 for DOS and then Delphi 2 based apps with sizes of tens-to-hundreds of KB (under 1MB anyway) that are even today more functional-complete than any other "modern/competitive" apps (=hog eye-candy apps killing resources with animations) that are still used in production. Please remember that at that time a BIG HDD has something around 40MB that will not really fit a current PDF ebook
... So IMHO, the size really matters in all scenarios, even more in mobile space !
While I praise that Delphi team managed to get a foothold
into the mobile's land (iOS and Android) please now
take look into the very complains that more and more regular Delphi developers (and definitelly the regular "haters") are focused on: start solving the huge pile of outstanding QC reported quality issues (ErrorInsight, FMX Styles, FMX
Form Designer) and put more effort in polishing the small but annoying issues: documentation, IDE stability, debugger ...etc -
Monday, 23 September 2013
Related to size reduction, while iOS apps will not benefit, in case of Delphi for Android, I find this proposal quite interesting:
Get the fat out from XE5 Android apps - FireMonkey
Runtime for Android (similar to Adobe's AIR Runtime) + QC#119119 Feature Request
https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?
threadID=93045&tstart=0
@Delphi complaining users: Instead of reiterating frustration in bogs & forums, please consider to vote for this feature that will benefit the full Delphi (for Android) ecosystem (both developers and vendors) -
Monday, 23 September 2013
@Vsevolod Leonov: agreed
XE5 is nice, has its improvements but is far from great. It puts a lot of fat on executables and the compile times are less than great. The Android support is limited, the timing regarding iOS7 and its implementation (manually adding images, etc) is poor
Embarcadero does a good job, but only half-heartedly and and half-way to something really great
Looking at things like DPF on sourceforge and its native components for iOS it is clear that with some effort better things could be done - maybe not just FM but also native support...
Just some ideas -
Monday, 23 September 2013
And as a litte add-on: I am glad that I bought my SA which is still valid until next year and gave me free access to XE5 (and maybe even XE6 8-) )
So my initial comment may have been somewhat premature (no one wants to miss the fireworks and the champagne)
Cheers and keep up the good work (native components would still be nice as an option to FM) -
Monday, 23 September 2013
Всеволод, подскажите, пожалуйста, когда будет доступна запись Московской презентации, которая состоялась сегодня?
С уважением,
Л. -
Tuesday, 24 September 2013
You asked to prioritize problems in another thread (which was less technical than this one)/ So, if I may, I would like to do it here
1) All Layer3D components do not respond to mouse events, ALL are identified incorrectly by ObjectAtPoint - this makes them practically useless.
2) TModel3D is practically useless as well, because it does not expose the mesh tree in the Designer.
3) Text rendering in 3D (especially in TText3D) is soooo buggy. On Android, for example, even Cyrillic characters are mutilated beyond recognition (Russian developers should be able to see this, right?).
3D in FireMonkey is such an attractive feature. Fix at least these problems, please! -
Tuesday, 24 September 2013
Где можно скачать слайды, которые показывались на конференции? Их обещали выложить, на сайте embarcadero.ru найти их невозможно (если они там есть).
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Wednesday, 25 September 2013
@Max
Мы их выложим в ближайшее время на сайте семинара
http://www.softwarepeople.ru/delphiandroid
И не только слайды, но и запись видео-трансляции. -
Wednesday, 25 September 2013
@Dev{eloper} Stonez
Thanks! After such comments I recover my faith in people
"Size" problems, indeed, are problems of ppl, who used to suffer from these in the past. Like in Jack London story about a man, who was close to death and all the life then he was extremely greedy to food. May be, guys need to "forget" their past experience
For example, if mobile app is too heavy, you can download it in "mcdonald's" where you're drinking your coffee.
"Haters" - I love them!
When they say "you're dead" I feel alive more than ever. The same for Delphi.
I show biz: if you have no haters, you're not a star.
Amusing and surprising - we didn't expected such are "hate rage" from OUR users for making Android, while "android" support was a feature we have been being hated for the last 2, when Delphi became multi-plat. "We need Android more then Mac OS in Delphi". I simply think people don't know what to want now The last chance to want something - go to re-read things in QC.
There is a good news (from applied psychology). People are always getting tired for 2-3 months (less than a quarter). People will end hating, as it takes too many energy. -
Wednesday, 25 September 2013
@Max
Все (включая запись трансляции) будет выложено на http://www.softwarepeople.ru/delphiandroid -
Wednesday, 25 September 2013
@Vadim Istomin
>>1) All Layer3D components do not respond to mouse events, ALL are identified incorrectly by ObjectAtPoint - this makes them practically useless.
Please, try a different method instead Layer3D in 3D forms.
Start with HD form and place TViewport3D on it. In this case your HD controls will behave.
>>2) TModel3D is practically useless as well, because it does not expose the mesh tree in the Designer.
Very disputable. Please, specify, in what way you want to use TModel3D and why it's useless?
>>3) Text rendering in 3D (especially in TText3D) is soooo buggy.
Why do you need it? use method in item 1.
And please specify the task. -
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As a EMB's customer I don't find this so funny...
You make fun of the obvious facts.
Next year, led by the quality of the product, I will not renew my SA nor re-buy Delphi any more. Isn't that funny?